[DoctorEldritch]

Originally Posted by DracoTarot

I'm all for the weird and bizarre.

Then maybe, and on the topic of Alice, too, you will enjoy the Cheshire Cat Song. It was cut off from the Disney cartoon version and did not make it into the final edit, but there was a plan for the Cheshire Cat there to have his own musical number:

With Nosferatu, we'll need to wait and see. It is hard to remake a silent film, I wonder if they will make it not silent or not, for one. The way they work with the plot would depend on this. Still, either way should be better than Renfield. That really needed more Dracula.

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch I didn't mind Alice being a grown-up, but yes, it's a very different story than you would get with a still-kid Alice.

I think, the ship captain in the second film made a good example of a strong female character.

Regarding the old films aging poorly - there's a lot of talk regarding this in the old Disney animations. I remember watching either the Aristocats or the Lady and the Tramp, forgot which one, and it came with a warning screen that some of the stuff displayed in there is not acceptable in modern times.

[DoctorEldritch]

@Saka I just find it peculiar how Wonderland does not grow with Alice there. If Wonderland is a manifestation of a child's psyche, as it likely is, then grown-up Alice should have it different that how it was when she was a kid.

American McGee approached it this way by making Wonderland all warped reflection of itself that was changed by his Alices traumatic experiences. Tim Burton's view is different, his Wonderland seems to exist irrespective of how mature Alice is like an alternative dimension. Nothing wrong with that, but I like the approach that Wonderland as a mind allegory better than it being just someplace you can visit. But that's me.

I'll need to rewatch it to check on that captain, I do not really remember her, I'm afraid. Will be interesting as examples of good strong female character is hard to come by these days, there are so many videos on YT deconstructing Captain Marvel, for example, and analysing how she is not a good example of that. Will be good to see a good example.

I want to say it is not limited to Disney movies. Maybe Disney has more of that than others (and there are documentaries exploring that even), but some book names are also being changed now (Agatha Christie comes to mind). Culture evolves, language evolves, and things change and get new meanings that the modern world needs to take into account...

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch It was in Alice Through the Looking Glass from 2016. The film starts with a ship struggling to navigate through a storm on the way back home from China.

[DoctorEldritch]

@Saka I watched it, but I can't recall that particular scene. I'll watch it again today and then tell you what I think. Is the captain only present in that one scene?

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch At the very end of the film she goes on another adventure, but it stops there.

[DoctorEldritch]

@Saka Not a lot of screen time then, I see...

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch Well, it's Alice as the captain, so she does get screen time, just not much in that specific role.

[DoctorEldritch]

@Saka I gave it a look, the impression I got there was a nod towards the first film and Alice demonstrating her confidence that she got through the course of that adventure, but it was a good moment nonetheless. But do you see her as a strong female character only when she is a captain and not as much for the rest of the film?

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch I think she is strong overall. For example how confidently she turned down the engagement proposal in the first film. It's a little bit of a complex situation, as the second film portrays her being lost, trying to re-evaluate her relationships and priorities. Even then, she is definitely not weak though.