[DoctorEldritch]

Hello Legion Gamers!

It is almost the middle of the month of Women in Gaming, and we have several interesting and important discussions, such as @Saka's report on harassment in gaming or insight into the new Lenovo campaign that aims to battle it. And there is another important insight that we came across recently and want to get your views on now!

One of our colleagues had a conversation with a female Esports player and learned an interesting insight from her on how she identifies (or doesn’t identify) herself in the gaming world. She mentioned that she doesn’t see herself as a “female athlete”, rather, as just an “athlete” among all other athletes, without any specific labels.

And it is not just this one Esports player either, the topic f identity and label usage in the gaming world has been in the spotlight for some time, and even has some academic research dedicated to it. And it was a subject of social debate for some time now, as well.

So we wanted to ask how you feel about this insight as gamers - do you agree with this sentiment personally, or do you see it differently compared to this esports player? What do you think about the use of the “female” label together with “gamer”, what’s the benefit of it, and are there any pitfalls?

Please share your thoughts with us!

[DracoTarot]

@DoctorEldritch Mostly I feel labels are restrictive. They let people make all kinds of assumptions about you and it may lead to toxicity.

For example, I can be labelled as an extrovert. I am friendly with almost anybody, talk freely, and people find me confident. But I get tired of people. Being around them. I need to get away from them after a while. There are very few people I can spend prolonged periods with and wish I were rather by myself. When someone calls me an extrovert, they are implying I won't show any introverted traits. Which isn't true.

I also feel labelling yourself or being labelled by someone is not a good habit to get into. Obsessing labels can lead to many restrictions. The Esports player may feel calling herself a "female Esporst player" restricts her from equality. I might be wrong about this.

Another example I can use is I'm a Tarot reader and do not associate myself with being a " Male Tarot Reader." Being male doesn't make me special and I'm not any better than a female reader. We are all equal.

[DoctorEldritch]

@DracoTarot I thought the introverts/extroverts spectrum was to do more with the recharge of energy rather than attitude. Introverts can be friendly and confident, they just get their energy from being alone rather than in the company of others.

But this sort of label may not be entirely the same as "female gamer", I think. Introverts/Extroverts theory was developed by Jung and is, to a degree, a term of psychology. "Female gamer", on the other hand, is more of a social construct and has little to do with the way the brain works.

I am not sure if gender plays any role in the quality of Tarot fortune telling, if you say that it does not, then I'll believe you, you have more experience in that field. But, traditionally, certain professions were allocated to certain genders when it comes to fortune telling. Like how the Oracle of Delphi was always a woman. Maybe that view has roots in traditions like that?

[GoLLuM13]

@DracoTarot My introvert fellow 💙 the only difference is that you can't tell at any moment that I'm extrovert (except with close friends maybe) 🤣

@DoctorEldritch to go back to the subject, I might see things differently maybe the culture difference, maybe my understanding of language that isn't the same I don't know but how I see it is more like "an additional information" (which is the sole purpose of the adjective) than something to offend or what. She's a "female" and she's also a "gamer" so she is a "female gamer" like this I know it's a "female" that plays games, if it's a "male" and he's also a "gamer" he's a "male gamer" like this I also know he's a "male" that plays games and obviously a "male gamer" and a "female gamer" can play together or against each other if they want to and any of them has the same equal chances to win. I'll add a little something, so you'll understand a little bit my way of thinking in both Arabic and French, in addition to numbers, adjectives also have a male and a female form, which means there is a special word for both. For example, in French "a female gamer" would be "une joueuse" and "a male gamer" would be "un joueur" and you should not use the wrong word which can be offensive depending on the person and how close the two persons are, obviously.

Now for the "athlete" part I guess it all got inherited from the traditional sports we all know, there are "male" competitions and "female" competitions, that's probably why there is this added adjective (in both cases).
I know that if someone says about me that I'm a "male gamer" or "male athlete" I won't be offended or feel bad about it or anything like that, that's just a fact and that's what it is, so I really don't understand where the problem is ? Nowadays, I feel like we can't say anything, anymore 👀 recently (I don't remember where exactly) I read that saying "female" while talking about a woman is purely and simply misogynistic. I think that at some point we won't talk anymore 😂 and all these millennia of linguistic evolution will be reduced to ashes 👀

[DracoTarot]

@DoctorEldritch Me using introvert and extrovert was just an example of personal experience.

I do feel being an introvert or extrovert is part of an social construct. Both has a different social behaviour and you'll be labelled for it.

Yep! All Oracle's are female but they actually adopted divination practices. Divination wasn't allocated perse. Men became more occupied with other things like war, working, trading and so forth.

Maybe a topic for another day 🙂

[DracoTarot]

@GoLLuM13 I totally agree with you and that why I chose to stay an introvert 🤣.

"Say nothing then there's nothing."

[DoctorEldritch]

@GoLLuM13 This does bring an interesting aspect to the discussion: the frame of language. English is the most widespread language, but maybe it is the very way that English works that is contributing to some of those issues with labels and benefits/dangers thereof. And other languages like French may actually have an easier time with it.

[Saka]

That's an interesting topic. It's true that the labels work differently for each language. For example in Polish the nouns have genders, and generally people use the gendered names for professions rather than sticking to the male version. So adding a "female" in front of that would be tautology.

I don't see the point of naming myself a "female gamer" or "female kendoka". It would imply that it is something fundamentally different than my male counterparts. It is not. Sure, the males have some advantages from their biological difference, such as more force or aging at a different rate, but I can work around that. In our dojo I am a formidable opponent for anyone below the black belt (we don't have belts, but the ranks work similar way and it's an easy analogy).

There are other labels, which carry a lot more significance. For example, it does matter that I am a deaf kendoka or gamer, because it affects how I participate in the disciplines in a specific way.

[DoctorEldritch]

@Saka Kendoka is an interesting example of a more traditional athletic discipline. But in kendo, there are tournaments that are divided by gender as well as rank, if I am remembering it right? When that happens, what are they called?

[Saka]

@DoctorEldritch The events themselves are for everyone, it's just that there are different series hosted in there: for people without a dan rank, for juniors, adult ladies, adult men, sometimes there can be series meant for those who have very high dan degrees too).